In this chapter we read the continuation of the interrogation between O'Brien and Winston, and no interlude was made. O'Brien divulges that the Goldstein book was written by him, and that everything it said on the book was already known by Winston. While O'Brien was interrogating Winston, he said a wrong answer and the lever of the dial was turn on. Winston said that, “ You are ruling over us for our own good” hoe said feebly. “ you believe that human beings are not fit to govern themselves and therefore----. O'Brien found the answer very stupid and explained to Winston the right answer, he says that the party only cares about the power, and they are not interested in the in the goods of others.
Later on in the chapter Winston mentions that the party will never be able to control the stars no matter how much power they have. O'Brien says that they can control something better and that is they mind and how they perceive the stars. For example, if we are only taught at school, and read in books that the earth is the center of the universe and that the sun and stars go around it, we will believe it because that's all we know, we don't have knowledge of another option. And that's an example of how controlling the mind if so powerful. In addition, the party makes the people feel stupefied. O'Brien also explains that the prominent power is not over things but power over man. They get control of the man by making them suffer through torture since obedience is not enough, they need to be 100% that those people are obeying the party and not themselves. The goal of the party is to tear down the human mind to pieces and put them again together with different shapes chosen by the party. This is like turning the citizens into robots.
Even though O'Brien explains to Winston why they are invincible, Winston still says to O'Brien that some spirit of man will defeat them. O'Brien takes Winston to see himself in the mirror and asks him if he considered to be a man. When Winston sees his reflection, he realizes how feeble he looks, as if he was rotting and falling to pieces. Now, O'Brien asks if he still feels superior to the party. Winston’s self esteem has descended and feels half. Winston mentions that he has not betrayed Julia, he still loves her. The fact that he hasn't betrayed Julia reflects the Winston’s pride and has not been completely annihilated. O'Brien gives him credit for being tenacious but sooner or later Winston know that they will shoot him. Winston asks when he will be shoot, but O'Brien says he doesn't have to be so pessimistic since he can get fixed but either way he will be shoot sooner or later. If I were Winston I would be traumatized thinking that in anytime they would shoot me. I wonder why the party doesn't give the chance for the “cured” people to live longer.